No more Free Ning Networks

[sharonb]

I have just read this article over on Tech Crunch - it will effect us and I am yet to hear officially from Ning but the news is that the network will longer operate free so I am thinking what to do- 

I am not sure advertising revenue will cover costs I know the traffic but may have to re-think what this site is. 

Here is the article so you know why I am concerned 

Ning Bubble Bursts 

So I am seeking ideas - do folks think adverts alone would pay hosting? I am not sure it will as people are fairly immune to advertising online - 

Anyone have other ideas?

[Elena Rossi]

But as far as I know on Facebook it's difficult to structure a discussion as a thread... I think it would be confusing to have all the discussions mixed together! Anyway I think it's probably too early to take suche decision... I don't think Ning is going to close in one week! They will state what their new conditions are (terms, costs, different options available) and probably a decision will make sense only then! We might decide that setting up a page for Paypal valountary offers might be enough ...Or we will decide to move away, but I trust they will leave enough time to decide.

[Beth Lea]

I think they obviously want us to talk turkey. We need to know how much they want from us to keep this network going, then divide that sum by the number of members (4000+). That will surely be how much we are each supposed to pay per annum. Alternatively, well there isnt an alternatively.

Someone needs to clarify how much they want. I'm a member of 3 ning networks and they are all booming environments. Hosting is hosting and I'm surprised that something so big wasn't charged for in the first place. However, I totally understand that not everyone can pay, and there should be consideration given to that. But ask yourself, how much did you buy for your stash this month that you wont use for some time, isnt a small subscription fee a kind of addition to your stash, of sorts? Also, you could have a trial offer, say, 3 months?

[Jenny Ross]

You can use Yuku for free but the hosting isn't free and if you want your board to remain add free it costs more. They do have options where you can join Yuku or support a specific community to offset the costs. That might be an option for Stitching Fingers.

Elena Rossi said:

What about yuku ( www.yuku.com ), the former ezboard ? (Or they bought ezbard, I don't know) It's free and looks quite good...

[Carol-Anne]

I am really sadden by this. I have joined other communities but I don't think that any are as flexible or accessible as this. I love being able to follow everything, everyone and every group without having to sign up. My instinct is to move else where but I don't know of anywhere that offers something comparble.

Sharon, I don't really understand the adverts thing. How do we make this work for the site. If each of us clicked on one advert each time we logged on would that generate enough revenue to cover the cost of the community?

For my part, I would be prepared to pay a small annual subscription to keep the site going, should we really expect something for nothing?

I really value what you have tried to do with this community and want to see it continue in some form. I hope we can find a solution between us.

[Maria del Valle]

Hello Sharon and everyone

I'm just thinking about the reactivation of Yahoo groups....
Perhaps Google may have something available ,later ... the truth, its a bad surprise for me all this! :-(
because I also hate to lose contact with people like all of you!

Hugs
Maria del Valle

[Faith]

Just some random thoughts:

groups are not like communities I like the "my page" of communities because it helps us get to know one another better.

With 3000 members, if everyone paid 10¢ a year, it would cover the most basic ning about twice (I don't know what all the other rates are) $1 should cover everything (use paypal).

I think you could create (I'd be willing to help set it up) a similar community on my website host (crosswinds.net) for about $12/mo and there would be NO ads at all. Same 10¢ would cover it + (if I can, I'd even be willing to host it - e-mail me if you'd like me to check out that option -- I pay for it anyway and currently have unlimited HD space and bandwidth, so it could remain free as long as my rates don't change)

That's my brainstorming for the afternoon.

[The Ardent Thread]

Members of Etsy.com are probably fairly familiar with Project Wonderful, a site where websites can sell ad space and crafters like myself can bid on those ads, sometimes at very low rates. It may not work on the NING site but could be good for other options. Just a thought.

As for ads, I have rather an aversion to them myself, especially when the are flashing or clustered in bunches. There is a need for quiet moderation when it comes to such a thing. They're not all bad, though.

[sharonb]

Hi everyone
first up Ning have said they will let everyone know on May 4th what the new structures will be. So Until then I can not say for sure what is going on
In the interests of transparency - Here is an announcement from Ning

As I am sure you will understand that Jerry and I have had long chats on this - so here are our thoughts as we hope Stitchinfingers will still be standing after the dust settles

For those that are worried about having to pay a sub for Stitchin fingers that is the last resort as far as I am concerned. It is a personal philosophy but one of the reasons I am online is to promote textiles and fiber as a valid creative activity. I believe one of the reasons textiles is looked upon by some as merely a hobby is that the majority of textile work was done in the domestic sphere, in other words behind closed doors. People don't see the work and creativity associated with fiber and don't understand the process or creative descissions involved. As a result many people dont value the activity or the piece created. For that reason I do not want to go behind virtual closed doors. I dont really want to hide away.

Provided that the price is not too costly - or does not creep up in 3-6 months or so - Ning are going to announce their plans on the 4th of May - I plan to try paying for the site via the advertising option. In other words I am going to call sponsors (ie advertising) and add google adsense, amazon books etc I don't
want to plaster the network with adds but since Ning have had
advertising already on the site it should not be too much of a shock to the users.

In order to make this work I will have to be more active in the network. I have been fairly hands off. This is in part because I believe that things online can not be cajoled into existence but have to have their own energy. People who know me I set things in motion - some live and others don't. That said probably stitchin fingers could do with a little more input from me. Perhaps I will add more content like shifting my stitch dictionary here, tutorials etc
(That means it will add more value for advertisers and will bring more
activity) Hopefully income will cover costs as the network will provide more for people in one spot.

These ideas are of course based on the idea that Ning will not shift their pricing structure too high. Jerry and I thought we would try this for 12 months and then assess what was what. If the worst comes to the worst I can always put a virtual hat out I am sure some community members would help out particularly if the place has been improved - revamped and generally given a shake.

Please be aware that this decision is not set in concrete but it is fairly solid and I feel I need to let people know what is going on

Now to answer your questions/ respond to your answers
Hi Jules
I found the http://grou.ps
in fact I have already joined a group that aims to help Ning owners shift but of course I have questions.
First Ning have to make the data available to shift - they have said they will but it still has to be done
Next grou.ps are still in beta
I also think it is hard to shift a community like this - many people are not all that tech savvy and moving a community can mean breaking it.

That said I am keeping the option open

Mickie
Yahoo just delivers email discussion and although simple it is not open as I said above being open accessible via search engines etc online is important too. If we want the next generation of stitchers to stitch we have to be visible.
I would love the simplicity however - and I could see how a yahoo email could become a place to hang out. In fact the idea is so appealing I might start one anyway!

Elena and Jeniffer
I will look into yaku.com and I bigtent.com further but like I said to Jules above Ning have to make the data available to shift
Jenny thanks for your research on yaku

Joan thanks for backing up my own experience of google adsense and amazon - in this particular topic area. I always feel people think I am not speaking the truth but our particular area of interest is not a big money earner.
I am crossing my fingers however that the network is big enough to attract sponsors that can see the worth of advertising here.

I am trying very hard to resist Face book. My personality type and facebook could be a disaster. I am on there of course but do not actively 'play' but I am terrified I will spend my whole life online! You are right it is an option but lets say I am resisting.
That said on a practical level it would be a great way to promote the network same with twitter (also a site I am resisting)

Also on a practical level we have a very broad demographic - its huge as we have members aged from 15 - 85 there is a large pocket that do not use any other form of social software. They are not on facebook and actively avoid it. So it would suit some people on the network but not all people- mind you I know it is not possible to please everyone.


Beth your points about stash spending are excellent until I asked as you say "But ask yourself, how much did you buy for your stash this month that you wont use for some time, isnt a small subscription fee a kind of addition to your stash, of sorts?"
- I hate to say it but I think I spent $2.00 this month but them I am on a low fiber diet.
Anyway I am going to try and avoid subscriptions

Carol-Anne you say
"Sharon, I don't really understand the adverts thing. How do we make this work for the site. If each of us clicked on one advert each time we logged on would that generate enough revenue to cover the cost of the community?"
Yes if people click on the adverts the site gets paid but it is cents so you need lots of clicks for it to mount up. Thing is stitchers dont click - its simple.

Faith
Thanks for your offer and you may have HD space and bandwidth but you will not have unlimited processing. This is where people get tricked, you would need a dedicated server and that is in the region of a couple of hundred dollars a month. It would cost loads to privately host stichin fingers there is 14,178 photos alone! Bandwith or HD space do not mean much in the case of social sites as they have loads and loads of hits to the server ie the server has to work hard to host them. It has to process every little click and that takes processing power so you get charged for it.
I know because of the stitch dictionary at one stage the combination of my blog and the stitch dictionary was costing me that. I divided them into 2 seperate places - the blog on squarespace which is cloud technology and only costs $20. a month. Ning is also cloud tech unless I am mistaken so it should be able to offer reasonable prices.


Ok that is the state of play and I thought I would let everyone know what is going on
I will keep in touch and leave this thread open for further comment

[Barbara Gordon]

I'm really sorry to hear this. I love all the groups I belong to, but it's starting to get a bit expensive! My income isn't high enough to keep paying out to all the groups I belong to. I'm hoping that maybe you can find somewhere else to maybe do this on instead. I'm sorry about it to.....I realize it costs money to run things, but I can just afford so much. I wish you luck and sorry I'm not that versed on this to come up with any suggestions.

[Elena Rossi]

Barbara, Sharon didn't talk of money we would have to pay!
Nobody knows yet how much Ning will ask for their services...
And once Sharon knows, she said she will first try to gather that money with advertising and Amazon affiliation. Here I must say it's true that maybe people don't click too much, but I think they would surely click more if they knew this keeps their site alive! I will click a lot more..And it would cost me nothing to go to Amazon through the link here instead of using a bookmark of mine! I think many others would do the same.
If this is not enough to pay Ning fees, , donations will be asked...Actually I think it would be useful to add this opportunity from now (setting up a Paypal account it's very easy!), for example I wouldn't like to have to pay a subscription ( if I had to pay a subscription for all the services I'm using that offer a free basic lavel and a 'Premium', improved one, such as Yahoo Mail, Webshots, Picnik and a lot others, I would spend a fortune! And for each one of them it would be just a few dollars...But they are a lot), but I wouldn't mind to donate adollar or two by Paypal from time to time... And if other people did the same in the community, it would be easy to collect what's necessary without asking a subscripton fee (that IMHO would discourage _a lot_ of people)

Barbara Gordon said:

I'm really sorry to hear this. I love all the groups I belong to, but it's starting to get a bit expensive! My income isn't high enough to keep paying out to all the groups I belong to. I'm hoping that maybe you can find somewhere else to maybe do this on instead. I'm sorry about it to.....I realize it costs money to run things, but I can just afford so much. I wish you luck and sorry I'm not that versed on this to come up with any suggestions.

[sharonb]

Yes Elena you have it right and thanks for clearing it up and pointing out that subscription services is my last resort I am pleased you spotted that - I will message Barbara and let her know.
I ramble when I am worried. Often it is more me thinking out loud and sometimes people don't read it all.
However I do want people to know what is going on - what I am thinking and why I think in a particular way so hopefully the majority understand

[Joan]

I wanted to clarify one thing about having adsense on this forum:

Carol-Anne said
"Sharon, I don't really understand the adverts thing. How do we make this work for the site. If each of us clicked on one advert each time we logged on would that generate enough revenue to cover the cost of the community?"

Carol-Anne, if you really wanted to help the site you could click on ads but ONLY if you truly were interested in buying what it offered. If google has the idea that people are clicking on ads just to make money for the site, the site could be banned. For instance, I have 3 blogs and a health site. I can't tell my friends and family to click on ads to help me out. That's strictly illegal.

One thing you could do, however, is if there is a certain book or yarn you want, you could tell Sharon and she could put up an Amazon ad for it and you could order through that. I have Amazon ads on my sites but each sale only gets me from one to 40 cents or so, depending on how much it costs, if it's a direct link sale or third party sale, etc.

I went into blogging to make money-lol. I chose topics I was interested in like my knitting blog, but certain topics people read for info, like hobby topics. They aren't necessarily looking for products. I do the best tho when I review a book or product and can recommend it. Sometimes people like my review and buy it through my link.

I'm not sure how much money KnitPicks makes but they do sell books and yarn and things, besides having a forum.

Joan