Art Societies V. Stitchers - Do you find the stitchers MUCH more friendly & open?

[Cate Field]

I've been painting and stitching for 30 years and have joined several societies... Most of the Art societies have been incredibly snooty.. the artists not willing to share ideas and techniques at all, and many, many painters have looked down their noses at my work because I include stitch... But stitchers? Well.. I have never yet met a group of quilters, dressmakers, felters, fibre artists, cross-stitchers.... etc etc.. who haven't been incredibly friendly and soooo willing to teach, offer advice and make encouraging noises.. maybe it's just me?

[Jules Woolford]

Hi Cate,

I do sympathise - I have heard that comment many times,  (and very often , the person speaking has not even looked at the piece of work, they just see a piece of fabric and perceive  all  textile art or craft as 'sewing' as Barbara says!) I've even heard people get sewing and knitting mixed up !

I suppose we just persevere,  keep smiling and keep on  promoting our art :)

[Larry Snyder]

Art people seem to feel that they need to carry an air about them to justify there prices. Thread people do not need to justify there position in life because it is still considered a hobby. Done for the satisfaction stitchery is very satifing if done for finacial gain you"ll starve to death.  I feel needlepoint can be an excepted art form at some point but it will require some free hand artist to create great works that will be recognized.

[Connie Eyberg]

Cate, I must agree that stitchers are the most friendly, helpful and encouraging group I have run across.  I have also been involved in art groups and tried creating a rapport with other bloggers that paint.  It is very difficult to make that same connection and I have to agree with Sharon that it has a lot to do with individualism and the competitive nature of the business.  I do belong to 3 watercolor sites on Facebook and surprisingly find all three of the groups to be very supportive. 

[Lesley Mazey]

I love this discussion.

 

I have been to Art groups and textile groups and in a lot of cases I have found the textile "mob" to be friendlier. But I have also been to some very warm and welcoming art societies so?????

 

But it is right about the attitude towards textiles. I fought for many yearsd to have my artwork accepted for a local exhibition and this year they said yes for the 1st time!! I was so happy. So I created my pieces and presented them. True to their word they accepted them for hanging. Then the day of the preview, yes there they were proudly on the wall between some knitted dolls and some dried flowers - well, at least they were there.

 

But the ultimate accolade had to be the 2 elderly ladies I overheard. They were giving one of my works a very close examination - glasses raised, nose to the glass. Then they steped back and one turned to the other and said "well it isn't really ART is it?" I could have been annoyed if I didn't find it so funny. The work in question was in the form of machine stitch sketches in black thread on paper - looking very like pencil sketches if you didn't get too close.

 

But I will return next year with somethin new. If they thought last years were odd just wait and see........

 

Lesley x

[Kalona Simmons]

Hi,

This is exactly the issue that's tearing me apart at the moment!!

I'm not in my teens anymore, nor twenties or thirties for that matter. I have been creative since I was 4, my mum was a dressmaking teacher, my nan knitted, what hope did I have!

I've gone through life ignoring my artistic side, in the main, life in the way, no room in the rucksack while travelling...so I fell behind in my ability and creativity. After a while I found I was depressed, unhappy, lacking in motivation and generally sick of it all....things happened, got a shock, so took up my artiness again.

At first I felt so bad at myself for neglecting it all those years, I was so far behind in my learning/developing, but it really didn't take too long to get back into it, and some....

BUT, once I decided to get out there with my art, whoa, the response! Hardly supportive, very aggressive and condescending, indeed snooty and patronising- in the main! (Some became good friends to this day, but are still regarded as fringe elements themselves!) I felt like giving up again..

I hate this attitude, always had, so imagine my suprise when I actually decided to get a degree myself! So sick of the "you're not qualified, or trained, or skilled", I thought I'd stick it to them, prove anyone can get a degree in art. If the likes of Tracey Emin can do it, I'm damn sure people with actual talent can!

And that is the crux of it...uni teaches you to be a self-propelling, loudmouth, egotistical dabbler nowadays- or where I'm studying anyway! It's true you need to stand out, but the one thing you really get drummed into you is the rougher, scruffier, more haphazard the work is the better, justify the results after. I am at odds with myself while studying- to me a year of hard work and learning with a reasonably visually attractive outcome is preferable to 2 weeks of throwing a bit of clay against a wall and a feather stuck in it....yet which gets the higher grade? Go figure! But this is the attitude that is taught and carried through to the mainstream artworld now...no wonder it's as alienating as it is.

I do find that most of my friends that use allsorts of materials are much more amiable and laid back... their work is stunning and they do okay... while they are proud of their work they are not precious and pedantic about it, as many single-media artists are. Perhaps that is the difference? Those artists that are only able to excel in one medium are jealous/resentful or envious of those more adept at versatility?

I really don't know, but it is a shame. As an artist, a photographer and a maker (in  numerous materials) I try to harbour the same feelings for all disciplines and creatives... maybe it takes longer to become more tolerant to others when you have been trained to think only of yourself?

Sorry for the lecture, as you can see it is a big issue for me, and please, when I'm writing about "artists" I do only mean those that are as we are discussing- mean, patronising and snooty- not the many others that are struggling with this as much as we do!

Good luck with finding a definitive answer,

Kal.xxx

 

 

[Cate Field]

Oh Kalona, how I empathise with you! And how brave of you to go and 'get qualified'!

I'm finding it more and more frustrating as a teacher (Secondary)... what 'should' I be teaching them?? Thank goodness the government hasn't got involved!

So I teach them to draw and to 'see' the world in different ways... I both Art and Textiles and I approach them the same way - experiment, yes... but learn the craft... take care with your work... but not too much... yes, throw a piece of clay at the wall (!!)... but then do something with it....

I can't make a living as an 'artist', although I exhibit and I sell a few pieces... as you say... you seem to need the loud mouth!!

Heyho... here's to the true fringe... keep creating...

Love Cate x

Kalona Simmons said:

Hi,

This is exactly the issue that's tearing me apart at the moment!!

I'm not in my teens anymore, nor twenties or thirties for that matter. I have been creative since I was 4, my mum was a dressmaking teacher, my nan knitted, what hope did I have!

I've gone through life ignoring my artistic side, in the main, life in the way, no room in the rucksack while travelling...so I fell behind in my ability and creativity. After a while I found I was depressed, unhappy, lacking in motivation and generally sick of it all....things happened, got a shock, so took up my artiness again.

At first I felt so bad at myself for neglecting it all those years, I was so far behind in my learning/developing, but it really didn't take too long to get back into it, and some....

BUT, once I decided to get out there with my art, whoa, the response! Hardly supportive, very aggressive and condescending, indeed snooty and patronising- in the main! (Some became good friends to this day, but are still regarded as fringe elements themselves!) I felt like giving up again..

I hate this attitude, always had, so imagine my suprise when I actually decided to get a degree myself! So sick of the "you're not qualified, or trained, or skilled", I thought I'd stick it to them, prove anyone can get a degree in art. If the likes of Tracey Emin can do it, I'm damn sure people with actual talent can!

And that is the crux of it...uni teaches you to be a self-propelling, loudmouth, egotistical dabbler nowadays- or where I'm studying anyway! It's true you need to stand out, but the one thing you really get drummed into you is the rougher, scruffier, more haphazard the work is the better, justify the results after. I am at odds with myself while studying- to me a year of hard work and learning with a reasonably visually attractive outcome is preferable to 2 weeks of throwing a bit of clay against a wall and a feather stuck in it....yet which gets the higher grade? Go figure! But this is the attitude that is taught and carried through to the mainstream artworld now...no wonder it's as alienating as it is.

I do find that most of my friends that use allsorts of materials are much more amiable and laid back... their work is stunning and they do okay... while they are proud of their work they are not precious and pedantic about it, as many single-media artists are. Perhaps that is the difference? Those artists that are only able to excel in one medium are jealous/resentful or envious of those more adept at versatility?

I really don't know, but it is a shame. As an artist, a photographer and a maker (in  numerous materials) I try to harbour the same feelings for all disciplines and creatives... maybe it takes longer to become more tolerant to others when you have been trained to think only of yourself?

Sorry for the lecture, as you can see it is a big issue for me, and please, when I'm writing about "artists" I do only mean those that are as we are discussing- mean, patronising and snooty- not the many others that are struggling with this as much as we do!

Good luck with finding a definitive answer,

Kal.xxx

 

 

[Laura Pratt]

This is a couple of years old... but I just couldn't help myself.

Before I got into teaching I worked in some art galleries and a museum. There is a definite snobbery in some art circles. That being said, as a new embroiderer, I have found nothing but help and friendliness by those who work with a thread and needle.

Personally, I think its the lack of ego that comes with the art itself. I find people in the fiber arts (all those quilters, dressmakers, cross-stitchers etc...) are kind of looked as "folk art" by the other artists and we lack pretension because that.

[BahamaDip]

I actually find none very opening or welcoming because of the level of skill needed for both groups, I've tried to join stitchy groups in my country and I am continuously snubbed. Oh well.

[Cate Field]

So sad to hear this :( Hopefully you can find some support on these friendly pages?

Cate

BahamaDip said:

I actually find none very opening or welcoming because of the level of skill needed for both groups, I've tried to join stitchy groups in my country and I am continuously snubbed. Oh well.

[Nicola Thomson]

I have just written a blog on this subject . :)

[Eveline de Lange]

I wrote a whole thing and then I pressed the wrong button and it was gone..okay, here it goes again! I actually have it the other way around! My artist friends are very respectful about my work and admire it, some even asked me to teach them embroidery even though they're not textile artists. We also discuss what I mean with it and why I choose this medium, and the most of my work sells to people who buy paintings, and I exhibit in galleries for fine artists, not for textile artists. I do combine my textile work with drawing and painting, and I don't really see myself as a textile artist, even though it is my favorite medium.

Now, don't get me wrong, it's not that I don't want to be part of a textile community! Otherwise I wouldn't be here, right? But I have bad experiences with stitchers, in general. In real life, I haven't been in touch with many online. I often go to shows and exhibitions with my mother, who is a quilter, and whenever I try to discuss something with a fellow stitcher, it just..doesn't happen. They think I don't take it seriously, they don't like that I combine embroidery with painting, they don't like that I'm young, they don't like that I'm not traditionally feminine...all together, they just don't like me! It's a shame, because I would love to exchange information and get together with people who also understand the technique and have a passion for embroidery, together with my friends who are more into fine arts. It's like there is this bridge between the traditional textile artist, who is often a bit older and has a specific way of doing things, and the younger artist who also does different sorts of arts.

And then it's a little odd to see the same people who just snubbed me being very friendly and interested in my mom, and sharing their information with her! I guess in a way, it's a women's society and you have to be a certain kind of woman to fit into it, and to be accepted into it. At these shows or workshops or anywhere where this happens, I just stay subtly next to my mom and listen to what the ladies have to say and hope they don't notice me, haha! We used to go to workshops together, but now she goes alone and usually gets an instruction book and materials for me, so afterwards I teach it to myself. It would be more fun to actually be part of a communtiy, but the snobbery is just not very creatively stimulating, I think.

Next month however, I'm going to an artist residency for a month in a textile museum in Blonduos, Iceland. So I'm going to try again! Maybe it was just a cultural thing(I'm saying this based on my experience in the Netherlands, my home country)and it will be different in another country. And if not, well, another lesson learned!

[Le Rinart]

I have lately read a book by Rachel P. Maines about something not at all related with textile art and that I won't mention here. What WAS interesting in the book was Mrs Maines' statement that textile art and needlecraft never was taken seriously (and certainly never was considered to be some sort of art) just because it was a 'woman's hobby'. Back in the 19th century, needlework and textile craft were mere 'useful activities' tought at school to make the little girls 'perfect wives' before they married finally and had to run a household. As an historian, Mrs Maine first started her research on American needlecraft and was absolutely abashed when she found that there had been just a few university research on the subject, whereas there were TONS of books about painting for example. Art critics and artitst don't see needlecraft as an art, and scholars don't study mere hobbies.

But who can state that embroidery for example does not take YEARS to master ?! Just like painting, sculpture or writing. Personally I think that embroidery is as demanding as any other art form. You can start easy and smooth but once you progress and undertake more intricate projects, it's no hobby anymore : it's creativity blended with a strong and well-mastered technique, in other words, it's art. Why are art people unfriendly towards needlecraft ? I guess because they are quite aware of what it takes to achieve textile projects, both in talent and energy - and maybe they're a bit envious ? Maybe because they're also envious of the common attitude amonst the needlecraft community that's warm and welcoming - such an attitude they'll never find in their own ranks, where competition and individualism rule (because it's a sale argument ? because it's what wealthy buyers expect 'professional artists' to be : cynical, cold, selfish individuals ?) I have no clue about sought after artists and art buyers in general but I'm convinced that there's an underlying strong misogyny behind the 'that's just craft' attitude towards needlework and textile people.

But there can also be some sort of strong conservatism in the needlecraft community too. I'm a perfect example of this (keeping in mind that maybe I'm wrong to write what I'm going to write). I started school only two years ago because I felt I didn't fit in the embroidery world of butterflies, botanical subjects and romantic things before. It took me a lot of courage to embark on the classes. What I do, left to my own idea, is very, very, very subversive and would probably be awfully shoking to most of the older ladies I meet at school (both mates and teachers). I have to hide my 'best pieces' and adapt to the standards of the 'regular stuff'. It's the price to pay for useful tuition. I don't blame it, it's just the way it is. I have experienced different reactions about my production amongst artists. Complete indifference for the regular study pieces and overwhelmed cheers towards the subversive pieces. What should I think about it ? I don't know.

The only thing is : keep merry and stitch on, all it takes is a heart, a needle and some thread ;)